Explain the Difference Between 'Raffle' and 'Draw'

I recently received a notice from the Patreon Trust and Safety team, stating that,

“Since it looks like your reward tiers and/or posts involve a raffle or giveaway, can you revise or remove these posts and revise your reward tiers to remove this aspect?”

What this was, is simply a copy from what other miniature painting pages are doing. I’ll give a few examples:





Every single one of these pages make 2X or more than I do per month. 3 of them are even ‘front page darlings’ that appear on the ‘Discover’ page, due to their income amounts being so large.
Every single one of these pages has a monthly or some sort of ‘draw’ or ‘raffle’ for painted models.

I was sent this notification on Sept. 20, and I notified support that this was not just an issue with my page. If it’s not a issue to offer a ‘draw’ on a monthly or semi-monthly basis to Patrons of a certain tier, then why am I being forced to change my rewards and these other pages are not?

I notified support about these pages the same day.
I took down the ‘draw’ for a painted miniature I did for Patrons and replaced it with something else.

Yet, it’s 11 days later, and every single one of these other pages is still allowed to do this.

This is a double-standard, and it needs to be resolved ASAP.
If these people are also breaking the TOS, I would expect that something be done about it immediately if I am being forced to remove the tier.

These people have been doing this for a lot longer than I have, and ALL of them are making a lot of money doing it. This is unfair, and unjust and is evidence that Patreon obviously doesn’t want to lose the scads of money these pages are raking in for them.
This feels like the only ones worth enforcing the rules on are those not making Patreon loads of cash every month.

Needless to say, I’ve been pissed for weeks as nothing gets done about these other pages, which gave me the idea to do a painted miniature draw in the first place.

I sure wish the support would actually respond to any emails I sent back.
And the Patreon staff are wondering why we use these forums for support instead of the standard channels?
I’ve sent 3 emails to support and I expected at the very least an answer along the lines of - ‘We’re looking into it.’ Instead I have to complain on the community forums.

Support team, you need to either get more help, or actually answer emails.
And get help if you need to when enforcing your TOS. This BS has been let slide on some of these pages for over 4 years.

4 YEARS.

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I should also mention that I was offered support to help transition the changes and I’ve yet to hear anything back despite sending 3 replies to that same email.

It’s been 11 days I have received no support, even though it was offered and I asked for it 3 times.

Hence why I am now posting here after no reply for almost 2 weeks.

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Hi @Ghool thank you for making this post. I’m sorry to hear about this experience and the frustration it’s causing. I followed up with the Trust and Safety team for this issue and they assured me someone will reach out to you - they may already have by the time I write this, please let me know. As they’re the experts on this area, I will let them answer your questions you wrote here and any others relating to raffles you may have, but don’t hesitate to message me if there’s anything else I can help with, now or in the future.

It’s less frustration, and more not getting an answer when I directly email support 3 times.
Like I said, it doesn’t take long to write a three word email or even one word saying ‘Thanks.’
And when your job is pretty much answering email?
I don’t think I need to send 3 emails and wait 11 days for a one word answer.

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This is not what I consider support.

These pages are not in violation of the Community Guidelines. They are in direct violation of Patreon’s Terms of Service.

So, I have to report these pages for Community Guidelines violations to get them even looked at??
What???
The support team is too small and incapable to enforce the ToS?
Then why is there, and why is it so selective?

Here is a copy of the support email I received in regards to this:

Maria (Patreon)

Oct 2, 12:00 PM PDT

Hello XXXXXXXX

I’m Maria and I’m a senior member of the Trust & Safety team here at Patreon. I sincerely apologize for the delay and I’d be happy to help further.

Since we are a smaller team, it can be a challenge to reach out to every creator. If you have concerns about other creators, please let us know here so that my team has access to the same context and information needed to take action if necessary.

I took a look at your creator page and I appreciate the changes you’ve made – I’m happy to brainstorm alternatives for raffles/giveaways with you or go through any ideas you might have on your end.

If you have any other questions about our guidelines or Terms of Use, please don’t hesitate to send them my way – I’m here to help.

Patreon Trust & Safety
Monday - Friday
9am - 6pm PST"

Uh yeah.
So, now it’s essentially not the Patreon Trust and Safety team’s job to enforce the ToS?
Then who sent me the email?
Who made me change my rewards?

Sorry but this so unfair, and absolutely the worst.
So, now, the team is too small to look at 8 Patreon pages directly in violation of their Terms of Use.
Nice one.
I guess that’s why it takes two weeks to reply to an email…

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I was told to report these pages so that they could get in front of the support teams eyes.
I thought that’s what I did.

I’d like to know why I’m still getting excuses as to why the TOU is only selectively being enforced?
I hate to say it, but I really feel like I don’t make Patreon enough money to make a difference if my income gets affected.

But when you’re dealing with three pages that are making close to 10k each, I feel like this is why I’m the only one being scrutinized for this.

I feel singled out and that I am being treated very unfairly. And all I’m getting is excuses as to why the support team can’t or won’t enforce the TOU without reporting them…which I can’t do unless I’m a paying Patron. I don’t feel like spending my own money or time on this.

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Hi @ghool, thanks for the post. I’ve been working with the T+S team to ensure that you get the answers you were after. I can see that they’ve explained how our report system works and why it works that way - all reports have to come in through a single channel so they can be looked at in the correct order. It also ensures that reports that come in from other avenues, like Patreon Support or Twitter, don’t get lost. Alongside that, each and every report also takes time as it’s a team of humans manually reviewing every account very carefully. We give the creator an opportunity to reform and explain, so there’s no reason for anyone to expect to see results immediately. Also, due to the nature of the review process, we’re unable to provide any updates on other creators’ reform processes.

I can see how this may seem slow or inefficient but please trust that our team will look at every single reported creator very carefully. I will close this thread as it’s no longer about the initial question; our T+S team will continue emailing with you and you can DM me if you have further questions.