Echoing @joumana’s sentiments from over here, I would really like to be able to sort any and all of the columns in ascending or descending order. As it is, it’s just a list. I know you’re trying to phase out the Patron Manager but one thing Patreon has done in the past is killed features that are very useful in the eyes of change. Please, please don’t do that this time around. You will not save us work. You will add work.
Hi there! Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like more sorting is definitely wanted! I do want to assure you that we will not remove Patron Manager until PRM is able to fulfill your needs. We may not solve those things in the same way Patron Manager did (hopefully we’ll solve them in a much more thoughtful way), but my goal is definitely to help creators. As we release new things to PRM, please keep giving us feedback so we can achieve that goal!
I definitely echo the sentiments, all of them, of the writer above (inversephase). We have several hundred patrons, and unless we can sort by the different columns, a database is useless to us. Our biggest problem right now is that there is no easy way to remove or hide patrons that have been declined for several months. We try to write to patrons when they first decline, and then write to them a few times after. But we are building up a backlog of declined patrons, with no way to remove them other than block them from the campaign. It has become almost impossible for us to figure out who we still need to write to again, and who we’ve already written to several times and have given up on. We used to be able to delete these patrons, but you removed that feature more than a year ago, and we can’t find another way to handle this problem. Possibly the PRM will allow us some way, but possibly not. And in the meantime, what do you suggest that we do?
Thanks for taking the time to add to the discussion here. This is a problem I’ve heard about a lot, and there are currently at least 2 things we’re planning to do to address it:
- Have an easy way to filter down which patrons you want to see by charge status, so that declines are hidden
- Show you more transparency into the fact that we already automatically notify patrons of declines on your behalf
It sounds like some of you still want the ability to remove their pledge altogether, but I’d love to hear more about that. Is it simply so they’re cleared from your list? Or do you need to take additional action for declined patrons beyond just letting them know their credit card was declined?
Thanks, Erin, for your reply. The issue is that we have found that if we
write to the patrons ourselves after they decline, some of them will fix
the situation. We wait several days before we write to them, so that they
will get your emails first, and if they are still declined, then we write.
Some of them tell us that they never got the email from Patreon. Others
don’t say anything, but only fix the problem after we write, so perhaps
they are ignoring the emails from Patreon.
The problem is that we have a long list of patrons that have been declined
for many months. We need some way to ignore those and just write to the
ones who declined only recently. Previously we were deleting the older
declined patrons from our campaign, so they wouldn’t show up in the patron
manager. Then for any patrons still marked as declined by the middle of the
month, we knew that we needed to write to them.
Filtering by charge status would not improve the situation for us. We need
a way to remove or hide the patrons who have been declined for some time.
My understanding is that if we block them (currently our only option) then
they can’t rejoin the campaign later. Previously, deleted patrons could
choose to rejoin the campaign, and that option was working very well for
us. We don’t see how to handle the situation now, with the current options.
I think what Sharonemail@example.com might be referring to is…well…let me paint a picture.
You find someone that asks how to support you. You tell them “I’d really like it if you supported me on Patreon.” They say they’ve never heard of it, and you tell them, and they willingly sign up, but because they haven’t heard of Patreon, they use their “alternate” or maybe a “junk” email account. They set up their credit card and forget about it.
These are the Patrons that enjoy checking in on your Patreon from time to time, but they don’t usually log in or engage. They’re just happy to see that they supported you in some way, and they did so in the way you asked them to. When their card expires, though, they probably don’t think about it because it was set-and-forget, and they won’t get an email from Patreon or the creator because they don’t often check their junk account or tend to it.
Sharon isn’t saying these are problem children, it’s that our list is getting cluttered. When we reward or list people in credits or send out a message to people or whatever, we want to go down a list and make sure that everyone is taken care of. If someone is declined, and we have no way to get in touch with them, it just becomes difficult to wade through that list, and like…some of these folks we may never hear from again because we don’t have actually-good contact information. In a situation like that, is blocking really necessary? It seems extreme. We need an in-between.
Whoops, sorry, just noticed a response was posted while I was posting mine. =] Looks like I was right in a few areas. Anyway, maybe it will still provide some insight!
Actually, what you added is another good point!
No need to be sorry - this is ALL great information for me. The more we understand your process, the better, and both of your responses gave me a lot more direction on what problem needs solving. Thank you!!!
What I don’t understand, Erin, is how this hasn’t been addressed sooner.
Surely it is not your fault, I don’t mean for it to come out that way. But myself and others have been making this problem clear for well over a year now. To see these other creators have to re-explain something that’s been a problem for this long sends the message that this hasn’t been taken seriously at all.
Same with the existing email problems. Patreon seems to be more focused on new features than in fixing existing bugs, and that is very frustrating. I love Patreon, but my experience is that it’s very common for you all to act like a problem is serious but then it is quickly forgotten.
Ahh, yeah I can totally understand how it has felt like that. We’ve made a lot of changes over the past few months to how we’re approaching product process as well as priorities. My hope is that you’ll start to see those changes paying off over the coming months and that we’ll earn your trust back.
I’m personally responsible for these features (as well as analytics), and my team has a lot planned to address the problems that we’ve heard over and over. I’m particularly interested in making sure our core functionality is giving you the value you need and is actively solving your problems. We’ve admittedly got a lot of catching up to do, but we’re ready to take it on!
To address the re-asking of questions, we’ve got a lot of user research here that is well-documented, but sometimes the nuances are either lost or were never probed in the first place. I’ve heard over and over that creators want to remove declined patrons, but until now I hadn’t heard the real reason(s) motivating this desire that would allow me to address them effectively.
Anyway, please stick with us and be patient just a little bit longer. And keep the feedback coming!
Yes, definitely. We have been complaining for over a year that we don’t have any way to see which patrons have been declined for some time and which ones are newly declined. Other creators seem to agree that writing to the patrons yourself can be very helpful after they decline, only now there isn’t any real way to do this. We have been growing increasingly frustrated as the situation has dragged on.
My complaint was certainly not with you. I first raised the issue with Heather over a year ago and was very specific about why it was problematic. I can see why something like that would get lost in the shuffle of transferring the responsibilities, but it’s still frustrating to wait so long.
Here’s another reason why it’s so vital - limited Patron slots. This is what I explained to Heather:
Example - I have 20 slots that are $20/month. Only 20, because each comes with a shoutout and I don’t want to have to do too many shoutouts in one episode. But when someone doesn’t pay, I am effectively stuck with 19 slots instead of 20. Without the ability to delete a patron, I’m stuck.
This is why I’m so frustrated. I have had people eating up these spots for a year and nothing has changed. This isn’t even complicated functionality. You had it before then removed it.
Bring it back! ASAP!
Hey @erin, when should we be poking you about updates? We want to help, we just also want communication. Is there a roadmap or time estimate for any of this?
Hey there! We’re currently in the middle of making some structural changes that will allow us to add more filters, sorting, and the like. No firm timeline I can communicate just yet, but I will definitely let you know when we’re closer to being ready.
In the meantime, feel free to keep adding new feedback! It all helps us prioritize and re-prioritize which things to work on. Just recognize that until this backend foundation is complete, it’ll be some time before you’ll start reaping the benefits.
So I mentioned it before in the context of another issue, but I think it might be important to revisit this:
Currently in the PRM there is no way to get a snapshot of what our patrons looked like at a certain point in time. That’s what the Patron Manager absolutely excels at, and (probably) why most people don’t want to see it go away.
Consider for a moment YouTubers that are using Patreon. They just post a video and they’re done; their patrons are rewarded. Or a musician that can just attach an MP3/MP4/whatever (even though that’s not the ideal way to get the music out for some of us). Or a graphic artist that can attach their artwork. The “reward mentality” for all of these individuals is “just post it” and forget it.
The instant we start adding things to the rewards, things get complicated. If we have other things to send to patrons or other ways we need to do so, and if we need to wait until the end of the month to send rewards and patrons add/drop, we’re gonna need a snapshot of who our patrons were at the time we created a thing and deemed it patron/reward-worthy.
To that end, maybe the Patron Manager should be retooled as a Reward Manager and mostly keep its current job (but add things that help us reward people) and the PRM could focus more on our “relationships” in whatever manner that should happen?
Get out of our heads!
Yep, that’s essentially exactly what’s going to be happening here. While we continue building PRM out to be focused on all patrons you’ve ever had and your relationship with those patrons, another team is starting to work on a Rewards Fulfillment manager that will get deeper into who is owed what for which month. That just kicked off, but… exciting things afoot.