The ongoing controversy

what does your statement: “most of us just want to make art” really mean. Do you believe that not participating in the debate is a form of neutrality. While the planet burns you can just sit on the sideline and watch the game. People who use hate speech and promote racist points of view should be contradicted very firmly. We need to engage them, not send them in hiding.

Allow me to clarify. What I mean is that I feel Patreon should be a place to make art, not a platform for people to promote hatred and violence. In principal, we shouldn’t have to be defending our platform for defending us from people who are seeking to use Patreon to harm others.

As far as being neutral, I’m hardly encouraging that. I’m very vocal about opposing bigorty and I’ve put up a YouTube video about the bans which has given me the opportunity to engage with lots of people on the subject. I’ve also been encouraging our fellow creators to stand up for their values. I agree with you and I hope more of us can engage to share our point of view and counter the negativity.

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Protest can take on a lot of different forms. Not all of us have the time, or the energy, to turn every single issue into a full-blown Italian opera, and pick apart every little thing someone says or does. And honestly, as someone who has spent most of this year creating protest art for various organizations, making art IS participating in the debate.

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I’m perfectly fine with this and I haven’t heard a single peep from my patrons about it. My work is pretty unambiguously queer so it’s not like I have to make any compromises with the same devils the GOP did to get money; nobody who thinks it’s cool to find excuses to throw around racism is going to be interested in giving me money in the first place.

I am amused to see these reports that there is a new “Patreon but you can be racist” site. At least it’s name isn’t as obvious as “Hatreon” this time.

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I’ll chime in here because I deal in Patreon statistics. Specific creators who are in the same “community” as Sargon have been hit by a 10-20% drop in support, but I see no evidence of it spreading to Patreon as a whole. Check out the overall Patreon Stats for yourself: https://graphtreon.com/patreon-stats (Patreon Daily line graph). This all started on Dec 7 and the overall trend continues to be upwards.

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I make a point to stay out of political shitstorms but am I the only one seeing the following?

“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.”

We all learn this when we’re kids.

Someone called someone else a name. Unpleasant, but I think we’ll all live.

On the other hand, a group who is actually using sticks and stones to break bones, (ANTIFA,) and has been classified as a domestic terror organization by the government, remains unbanned.

If you gotta ban Sargon, well, it’s your party. But to keep those other party poopers around, it’s kinda uncool.

And that’s all I have to say about that.

I will say if you personally run across something that you feel should be removed, you can always use the content reporting tool. I don’t expect anyone to go on a tear or research things, but we do review these reports and they are taken seriously.

.

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There are Antifa groups on Patreon? I’ve searched and the only one I can find has 1 patron.

Ok so this isn’t even a controversy like it took half a second of research on this guy (Sargon of Akkad) and he’s a far-right, anti-feminist conspiracy theorist. Who has attended alt-right rallies, has apparently harrassed feminists among many other awful things which you can read in his wiki below

I DO NOT THINK IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT

Like seriously.

And let’s say you don’t trust wikipedia like you can go to his youtube page or any other page and you will be horrified. (Which i also did just to make sure that is aligned with what Wikipedia said)

I watched an interesting video by a youtuber Contrapoints and something she shared were posts from a neo-nazi forum discussing ways how to be more subtle about achieving their agendas without getting caught. Because you can’t just be racist anymore. You have to be clever and use dog-whistles.

What has happened is he got banned, and he’s using his platform to get revenge on Patreon by pretending like he was saying those racial slurs in jest and is trying to make Jack Conte and Patreon out to be the bad guys by (taking his words out of context). I have no idea how people are even falling for this BS. Like seriously Google is right there. His beliefs align up with the types of people who also hold racists and neo-nazi views
So I say good riddance.

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From the linked Wikipedia page:

In December 2018 Benjamin was the object of a widely-publicized controversy …

Is that so? This forum topic here is still the only time where this issue appeared to me without actually looking for it. None of the many YouTube channels I follow mentioned it, let alone any regular news channels. Even millions of followers on YouTube doesn’t mean that “the public” knows or cares about you. The YouTube world is still a niche, and the field Sargon is engaged in is a niche inside that YouTube niche.
So frankly, it is not a controversy for me and more a case of “don’t feed the trolls”. Because after all, stirring controversies is what many of these channels thrive on.

hol up~

just a though,

i am really new to what was patreon and what is patreon now, i dont really like politics so that is only a thing that is like, if is not related to my own stories or games, then is just something i dont like in my stuff in any form

so for what i am reading / listening, i didnt knew this place had a problem actually
saw one youtuber [the quartering] that said he was banned from patreon for reasons and i was like , well, what he did was really againts the law, dropping on the “Harassment” rules, that is a very hard topic to not actually being allowed to even talk of, because nowadays everything is bad, and we need to reclaim something that is really important, free of speech. i might be wrong as much i am right, i dont want to talk about politics or social things, i just want to do most people happy and enjoy something that i do and love myself, if i cant make people enjoy and otherwise make more people be against what i do [yes i know that if i get into the public with what stuff i do, i might be seen as a very perverted person, but am actually very chill and even i can say that i am the good part of being pervert >w<] and yeah, he does not attack persee, but the people he talks about are the ones that are “being / feels attacked” and i can say that yeah, if you really want to screw them then you can bluntly say that.

but that is not a very smart move right?

i do try to be like, “you do you, i do me” type of creator, and i really want to have the most people on my side.
we all have at least some knowledge on what is good or bad, and we really need to watch this as mature as posible, i know, all people has their own problems, and is relaly hard to change your ways, but really, if internet was as that kind of people wants it, then we where in a total chaos, and a bad one.

i want to say one last thing, we need chaos, not be againts it, but understand why is there, if we destroy a chaos , we are making other thing as bad as the chaos we destroyed.
currently the balance is really messed up, and we are being childish about it,
maybe most theories of people that says that “the end times, the apocalypse will be not caused by a war, or zombies, it will be done by otakus and gamers”

well i can just rand over and over, but what is words that arent read?
of course, i dont want to do this in a daily basis , i just prefer to make something that will make more than one people happy, and that is more than i even want to achieve

NO idea of any hype at all, but then I don’t keep up with this board and only get weekly roundups. First i’ve heard of it.

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I will chime in here because I unknowingly violated the ToS with regard to raffles.
I can safely say that the support team was in contact with me in a very polite and straight forward email. I was asked to change my raffles, and to get in touch with them when I did.

My page wasn’t suspended. My income was not put on hold. I did not suffer in any way, nor was the team impolite or antagonistic.

I was asked to change the violation.
I did.
It was then business as usual.

So long as you comply with the ToS, Patreon has no reason to ban you or remove your income.
They will give you fair warning I assume, unless it’s pretty extreme.

In my case, I was literally breaking the law in some states. Yet, my page wasn’t shut down, nor was I banned.

If one decides to utilize a platform, so long as you comply with the terms, then expect to be held to those terms

This is way more political than it needs to be. My Patrons are here to learn how to paint. Not get involved in political ideologies. I haven’t lost anyone since this happened.

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Sargon had instigated mobs against a number of friends, several of whom are Patreon creators. At PatreCon, a regular topic of discussion was why the hell Sargon was still on the platform. He’d gone up to the line of conduct for a long time. I support and applaud them kicking him off.

And I haven’t heard a peep from my patrons about it.

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The classics community (ancient history academics) are familiar with the antics of Sargon and his ilk. Pharos is an online publication dedicated to educating scholars and the public about the current trend of various hate-groups appropriating classical (especially Greco-Roman) motifs to lend weight to and defend their arguments. You can find more information on Sargon on their Onomasticon page --> http://pages.vassar.edu/pharos/onomasticon-of-classical-pseudonyms-and-avatars/

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This weird, anti-Patreon sentiment was echoed by an email we got from a new would-be Patron two days ago too. He urged us to quit Patreon because of its “policies in the news”. It echoed this article from Breitbart, which is a far-right leaning online news rag for those who are unfamiliar.

For the record, our page is experiencing some growth, so we’re not worried, but we wanted to make ourselves available for those of you who may need support in any way. The news is negative, but I think it’s how our community responds to it that counts.

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I 100% support Patreon on this

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Have seen nothing in my community.

Watched the Matt Christiansen video of his call with patreon. I found him to be unpersuasive. He says, “How can you have subjective standards and still be fair? The only acceptable standard is an absolute one that is uniformly applied.”

I don’t know enough about Sargon’s situation to comment. I think a permaban might have been excessive. But if he’s anything like Matt Christiansen, he’s the type to use sophistry to get his own points across.

Like why is Matt bringing Milo Yinnopaulis into this? I read the emails about him buzzfeed published – Milo disavowing Proud Boys is bullshit when he and Bannon worked tirelessly for a long time to bring white nationalism into the mainstream.

Without looking more into this, I think the permaban might have been too much. But then I see he has a video called, “It’s Okay to be a Nationalist” which makes me think he’s literally marshaling Nazis and other reactionaries by populating their echo chamber. Troubling.

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If anyone is giving you trouble, just link them this article;

It’s an interesting article on the Patreon stuff, but most notably it shows that Sargon wasn’t banned out of nowhere; he was suspended like everyone else, and he voluntarily chose to reject their offer to reinstate his account.

This clarifies and fixes the idea that Sargon got insta-banned with no warning, as people had been claiming, which was the cornerstone behind the whole fearmongering of “we can get banned for anything at anytime now and there’s no way to avoid it or fix it!” that everyone has been screaming about online.

He had every allowance to come back on, so yeah. Don’t stress. Patreon is still giving infinite chances to fix things.

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he was suspended like everyone else, and he voluntarily chose to reject their offer to reinstate his account .

That should have been communicated a lot better, I feel. A lot of misunderstanding and misinformation would have been nipped in the bud. It’s a learning process.

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