Uk charged more

I had a message this morning from someone wanting to subscribe to my service.
Said its $60 instead of $50 because they are in the uk.
Is that right?

im getting $45.77 for each sub…

thats a huge wack for Patreon.com

John.

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Yes. EU residents are charged VAT. 20% for us UK peeps. It sucks and I don’t understand why it has to be implemented on Patreon since it’s not selling goods, but there you have it. This is why it’s so hard to gain European patrons.

Basically it’s EU law that if you’re an EU company charging EU citizens for goods and services, even through a non-EU intermediary like Patreon (or, say, Steam, or Google, etc) that you must charge VAT. At least we are exempt from having to actually account for it and Patreon does that for us, which trust me, is a massive advantage.

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This is the first I’ve heard of it. Didn’t patreon not say on their last cock up that they apologise and will notify us of any changes in the future?
Hmmm. Time to look elsewhere methinks.

I wouldn’t really expect Patreon to notify us of this as it’s been the law for years and should have been implemented from day 1?

This is not a change, it’s always been this way. You were just not aware of it.

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It’s not new, it was always there.

I’m outside of the EU, so it has nothing to do with me selling goods or services in the EU.
All of my EU Patrons have to pay VAT, and I can even see how much is collected every month, and for each country.
The law has to do with EU citizens purchasing goods or services outside the EU.
Basically, it’s an F-U tax for anyone in the EU wanting to buy anything cheaper from the US or anywhere else.

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** there’s ways round it **

My suggestion to Patreon for this was that EU users should see pledge amounts with VAT applied so that what they pledge is what they pay, and there is no surprise come billing time. For instance if I have a $10 tier, anyone UK-based would see it displayed as $12. I wonder if it’s possible @carla ?

Agreed… almost. I would rather EU citizens get quoted to pledge $10 and were charged $10 and Patreon extracted the VAT from that, not an additional amount. That’s much less of a turn-off.

Yes agreed! It’s the unexpected +20% that’s really offputting.

Yes, this is a real bummer but it is something that Patreon make very clear here. When I was researching Patreon before launching my page in November, I nearly didn’t go ahead simply because of the EU VAT issue.

It’s not Patreon’s fault, it’s just a crappy law that ironically hinders the very businesses that Patreon is trying to help.

In the end, I went ahead and decided that I would write an explanation in my Overview so that new Patrons don’t get a nasty surprise when they pledge.

My explanation reads:

A QUICK NOTE ON DOLLARS AND VAT

DOLLARS: Patreon is a US company, so the currency is shown in US Dollars. At the time of writing, here’s an approximate exchange rate for my UK Patrons >> $1 = £0.71

You’ll see I’ve added an approximate Sterling conversion at the bottom of each reward. In our global village, I hope you’re happy to support me even if USDs aren’t your native currency.

VAT: Due to European Union regulations, Patreon need to charge VAT on pledges made by EU-based Patrons. Therefore, if you live in the EU, please bear in mind that the Reward values will have VAT added. Click here for some more info about it from Patreon.

Then, I write this just above each Get Reward button:

Pledge $3 per month (plus VAT in the EU) to unlock Patron-only posts AND we’ll list your name on a dedicated thank you page in the final book.

This reward equates to approx £3 per month including VAT

Seems to do the trick. It doesn’t mean people like it but at least they don’t get a nasty surprise right before they pledge.

I’ve included a link to my Patreon page below if you’d like to see how it all looks. Feel free to use any wording you might find helpful.

Remember, communication’s the key in these scenarios. Even better would be if the EU relaxed their VAT laws in this instance!

— Jack

PS @johnftseman Remember, Patreon don’t receive the VAT. Customs & Excise do.

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Wow Jack that’s such a good idea, I may do the same with mine! How do I work out the VAT on something, I know that’s a silly question but maths is NOT my strong point (i’m a bit dyslexic with numbers!).

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By the way do you mind if I copy your bit about dollars and VAT? It would be so helpful!

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ditto!

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The VAT rate in the UK is 20%, so the simplest way — well, the way I do it — is to multiply the pledge amount by 1.2.

So, if a new Patron’s pledging $10, that equates to about £7.10.

£7.10 x 1.2 = £8.52

So, then I’ve written this on my second Reward Tier:

This reward equates to approx £9 per month including VAT

Writing £9 keeps it simpler, allows for a little fluctuation AND the new Patron will be pleasantly surprised if it works out a little less!

That’s my thinking anyway, which I hope helps…?

— Jack

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@artbyemilyhare and @puppygames — I don’t mind at all!

Go for your lives. The way I see it in the Patreon Community is that we are all here to help each other. I’m learning, you’re learning.

It’s a shifting landscape. A brave new world. Let’s help us to help us!

— Jack

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Thank you Jack!! :slight_smile:

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Hi everyone,

I’m new here, but ironically, I know a fair bit about EU VAT because I was involved in the campaign to get it overturned! I’m a member of The Alliance of Independent Authors (ALLi) and have been in touch with the EU VAT Campaign, and wrote a booklet about this very subject which you might find useful.

I’m more than happy to allow Patreon creators to have a copy of the booklet for free – you can find it at https://payhip.com/b/pX8y and use the coupon code PATREON-CREATIVES-2018 to get 100% off at the checkout.

There’s a wonderful woman called Clare Josa who runs the campaign, as a result of which the EU will be introducing a threshold next year, below which no VAT will be due (it’s likely to be around £10,000). No doubt Patreon are aware of this development.

If you’re on Facebook, see https://www.facebook.com/groups/euvataction/

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