Update: removed patron number on tiers

Hey folks, I wanted to let you know that we made a minor change yesterday to your profile; the patron number listed on each of your tiers has been removed. This change was made as we want you to have the most accurate business data, and this number did not account for declined or disabled pledges. As such, it was causing confusion as the numbers were different in different places.

To access the accurate number of patrons in each of your tiers by using the filtering tool at the top of your Patron Relationship Manager. Full instructions can be found here on how to find that number. Hope that helps and clears up any confusion :slight_smile:

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The instructions linked to from here should mention that you not only need to select the correct reward tier that you want to check, but that you also need to select Active patrons under Membership Types or it will show you patrons that you no longer have in that tier.

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you read our mind @FutilityCloset! the team is making that change today :slight_smile: thanks for saying.

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Good to hear… such inconsistencies! :grinning:

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One kind of major flaw in this: Relationship Manager doesn’t really “work” on mobile. The filters bar doesn’t pop up. All I can do is search by name. Unless I’m missing something, that is.

However, I am happy to see an update and it is absolutely helpful to have accurate numbers. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Am I the only one that thinks that having the patron number by each tier is good social proof?

For example, I have four tiers ($1/$5/$10/$20). If you come to my page thinking that maybe you’ll pledge a few dollars, but you see that $10 is the most popular tier, then you might think to yourself: “maybe I really do want the $10 tier” or “that $10 tier must really be worth it.”

Here’s another way of looking at it: My $10 tier includes access to a private forum. When you come to my page, you might be thinking “a private forum would be cool, but what if nobody is there?” Whereas if you see that there are a bunch of people at that level, you might think “wow I bet that private forum has a lot of activity!”

Personally, I don’t care at all whether the number by each tier is exactly correct, as long as it roughly reflects reality. In fact, the main reason I have kept my earnings number public is so that the number of patrons shows up next to each tier.

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Yeah, this is a great point. Social proof is huge for this stuff. I totally understand removing it for consistencies sake but i think the benefit of showing them outweighs that. It really should be just general practice that if a creator wants specific/accurate numbers, to go into the dashboard for that (though things aren’t super consistent or clear their either. So i feel like once that is better, having those numbers on the tiers will be fine for a quick glance.)

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I agree. It also works the other way in that people can see that it’s okay to pledge those lower tiers if there are others there. I think the psychology of seeing numbers that represent people pledging is more important than having accounting accuracy in that column. You never know there could be someone who sees you have no one at $X tier and wants to be that person too.

And I never used those numbers to figure specific amounts as I know some of my tiers have changed and some patrons are in limbo not attached to current tiers. It was just nice to see at a glance that someone was pledging there so I didn’t neglect any populated tiers. With three Patreon accounts I don’t have time to go into the patron manager every time I log in.

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Really not a fan of this change. First, it was really valuable social proof and helps new visitors come to a quicker decision on which tier is the best entry point.

Plus, I used that number to figure out about how prints I need to make so I liked that it didn’t show declined or disabled pledges. It’s harder for me to get the number of rewards I want to make now because now I have to go into the patron manager and subtract the amount of declines instead of just glancing at my front page.

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I also prefer having the social proof! I think it makes it easier for prospective patrons to pick one too, perhaps going for the most popular one. Whenever I look at a creator’s page, I look for the number of patrons in each tier, and then zero in on the most popular tier to look for what super cool thing is there that everyone wants.

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Hi everyone, I wanted to thank you all for sharing your thoughts about this. Rest assured I passed your feedback and thoughts to the team, especially about the social proof point which was really interesting. Things like this are why this forum is so valuable to us. Thank you, and I’lll update this if I have any other news around this feature.

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Please rather than stripping such useful features, fix them up instead! I would suggest reverting the change that removed them, and then looking into a way to avoid counting declined or disabled pledges.

The Patron Relationship Manager is no alternative since it’s not public.

I remember Patreon did A/B tests in the past by having a certain change only few a subset of creators. For a change like this, it would be interesting to know whether it has any effect on amounts pledged.

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Echoing the sentiments re: social proof with the number of patrons on each tier. I feel like it does wonders for me, I have some really strong tiers and I would wager that getting confirmation of “oh hey, lots of people are in this tier and it fits my budget!” is a big positive.

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Definitely not! Even if the number was inaccurate for a couple of days around payment day, it was very good social validation for new people looking at our profile.

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Hi, I’m Ursula and I work with the team who made this change. Thanks for the feedback everyone! The change was made as a result of the confusion that the inaccuracy of the number created, and the fact that ensuring consistent accuracy of the patron count is not a simple task. That being said, I love the conversation this has sparked, and understand the value of the social proofing that number offered, especially to those whose higher tiers are popular. We’ll keep this feedback in mind as we work towards improving this page in the future. Thank you all again.

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What about when creators view their page, having a link in the same small font “Click for details” or “View patreon manager” (Or whatever page has the correct numbers) linked next to those numbers or something? A bunch of us are about to relaunch our pages and with this number gone i’m actually a bit concerned about the turn out this relaunch might have without this social proof. (Heck, i use those numbers when pledging to others myself!)

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I would offer the possibility that, if this gets another look at, it be an option that creators can turn on or off.

Social proof can hurt as well – if most people are at a $1 tier, the creator might want to turn off the proof. While if most people are at $5, $10+, then that same creator might want to turn on the proof.

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Very glad to see this addressed here.

I’m also another vote for social proof. I want new patrons to know what the most popular pledge amount is, and I think seeing actual numbers of supporters under the Tiers makes joining feel more real and trustworthy.

Even not 100% accurate, it’s better to have it.

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Totally agree with everyone that as a way to incent people to decide to move to higher tiers, seeing other people already inhabiting them is very valuable.

Could we at least get an interim solution? Maybe a “50% of people are pledging at this tier” thing?

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I agree about the social proof points made, I miss this feature :frowning:

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