When will Patreon fix the Rights Agreement that gives them eternal rights to all work posted?

I still want to know when Patreon will fix their overbroad ‘rights’ agreement, that gives them complete rights, forever, to any work that I post on Patreon.

And please do not give me that lie that you need those rights to run your servers. I’ve had two copyright lawyers go over the agreement and the both have agreed it is overly broad (no right to revoke, lasts in perpetuity) and it is NOT the standard that anyone else uses.

I’ve asked about this before and been rebuffed and told ‘that’s the industry standard’ which of course it isn’t or that ‘we need this to work’ which you don’t. The lack of a right to revoke, the right of Patreon to use my work to make money for themselves, these are NOT fair terms. When I bring this up, along with my IP attorney’s analysis, no one responds to me further.

So, when is Patreon going to address this very severe legal issue?

Here is one analysis from my attorney: https://jvanstry.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-patreon-licensing-agreement.html

Patreon does not get complete rights to your work. From Patreon’s own terms of service which are very clear about what they do with your content and rights:

TLDR: You keep complete ownership of all creations, but you give us permission to use them on Patreon. Make sure you have permission to use creations that you offer on Patreon.

You keep full ownership of all creations that you offer on Patreon, but we need licenses from you to operate Patreon effectively.

By posting creations on Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your creation. The purpose of this license is strictly limited to allow us to provide and promote memberships to your patrons. We will never try to steal your creations or use them in an exploitative way.

You may not post creations that infringe others’ intellectual property or proprietary rights.

Patrons may not use creations posted by creators in any way not authorized by the creator.

(emphasis mine)

I’m not a lawyer but you should start worrying when a platform wants exclusive rights (which Patreon does not) and that’s why you always need to read the terms of service before you start using a service.

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You didn’t read my attorney’s legal analysis, did you?
Patreon maintains ETERNAL rights to USE your content AS THEY WISH.
Sure, they’re non-exclusive rights, but they can still undercut me by giving my work away for free (so they can make money using it) and I get nothing.

No. That is untrue and the relevant terms stating otherwise were just quoted above your post. They CANNOT use them as they wish. The use is clearly defined and statements as your “to make money for themselves” are simply false. Maybe that’s why your complaints are ignored. They are over the top. And while it’s good that you talk to lawyers about this, it’s not like an informal blog post giving a lawyer’s opinion on a certain article is somehow the undeniable legal truth we or Patreon must accept.

Who said that? It’s not a “need” per se, but it is indeed an industry standard to run an “efficient” web service as Patreon puts it. If it’s not broad, the provider needs to constantly extend the agreement and have content creators sign the changed agreements over and over again when they add new features or new technologies to distribute the content come up. I always see terms like this, for social media as well as professional content creator licensing e.g. text, music, graphics and so on. For example, have a look at a popular image licensing site:
https://contributors.gettyimages.com/article_public.aspx?article_id=4872
It uses exactly the same kind of wording, is equally broad (maybe even more so) and doesn’t specify any kind of revocation. Of course you can just delete your content as you can on Patreon.

You didn’t read my lawyer’s analysis, did you?
The link was right there, and you didn’t read it.
I love how you all talk about lawyers, legal agreements and the law, yet when an actual lawyer weighs in, you just ignore it.

There’s a link in my post to another opinion by another IP lawyer, more famous than mine. I bet you ignored that too.

The comment about making money is that they can give my stuff away as advertising, which is not a direct income, so no royalties will be due. But they’ll get eyeballs, subscribers, and hence income.

If you’re not going to read the legal analysis by actual legal experts, please don’t comment. Unless you’re a lawyer and legal expert who can point out where the other two lawyers are wrong. Otherwise you are just whistling past the graveyard.

You really need to change your tone and stop asserting for a fact what you don’t know and then even judge people based on your baseless assertions! Yes, I read it all and and I answered BASED on what I read. Otherwise my answer wouldn’t even have made sense. Don’t even try to continue to make false claims about me based on speculation alone.

Then why the hell do you post here? You post in a creator forum—you will get creator comments, including people like me who have dealt with IP licensing for many years. And you might also get comments that don’t fully agree with your opinion. Are you even looking for an honest discussion or not?

And since you falsely claimed several time I “ignored” your links, how about addressing ANYTHING I just said. So far you ignored every point I made. You just made false claims about me and tried to bolster your claims again, e.g. by pointing out how “famous” someone is. As if that would mean anything. By the way: even your lawyer disagreed with the other article. So much for that.

Hey folks, this topic has now derailed so I will be closing it.

@vanstry you can read our full stance on this here: https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027197791-I-grant-Patreon-a-license-to-do-what-with-my-creations-

In that article we explain that

Patreon is a creator-founded company that understands completely the importance of retaining ownership over your creations. Creators should be downright skeptical of any agreement that seeks to share in or transfer any portion of ownership in your creations. We are definitely not attempting to claim any sort of ownership or control over your works.

Instead, this section is to ensure that Patreon has all necessary permission to upload, host, resize and display the creations of our creators worldwide. Like we say in the text, “The purpose of this license is strictly limited to allow us to provide and promote memberships to your patrons. We will never try to steal your creations or use them in an exploitative way.”

If you have further questions, kindly email legal@patreon.com as this is beyond the realms of what this forum is intended for.